The Personalist Project

Comments (10)

Katie van Schaijik

#1, Feb 1, 2014 8:27am

Sam, thanks for this.  If it were up to me, I'd make a reply to Schindler Jules' project for the new year.

I haven't read his article yet (thanks for bringing it to our attention!), but judging from your post, I suspect I won't like it.

I don't think Schindler does justice to John Courtney Murry; I don't think he does justice to American liberalism, and I don't think he does justice to religious freedom.

But maybe I'm not doing justice to him.

I should read it before I say more.  Is it online?

Sam Roeble

#2, Feb 1, 2014 1:44pm

glad to bring it to your attention.  yes, its available in pdf at the link i provided in the end notes.

also note i changed the title to my post on Aquinas-- again i think you misinterpreted my intent--forgive my inaccuracy

Sam Roeble

#3, Feb 1, 2014 7:21pm

Here's the link if it's difficult to locate: [url=][/url]

Jules van Schaijik

#4, Feb 2, 2014 12:33am

Just downloaded the pdf.  I'll try to read it soon.

Just a quick comment: I agree that in some sense freedom may be said to be a means to truth.  But then there is also an important sense in which truth is a means to freedom.  (Also, in Love and Responsibility, Wojtyla writes that freedom is a means to love.)

Sam Roeble

#5, Feb 2, 2014 12:51pm

Good insight Jules.  I want to make clear that that "Means/End" interpretation was solely mine, and cannot be found in Schindler.  I am open to the fact that it can be vice versa with truth toward freedom, however, I don't think freedom can be as easily associated with the Person of Christ, e.g. "I am the freedom, the way and the life"--was never a statement by Christ.

Sam Roeble

#6, Feb 6, 2014 3:49pm

Obama's interesting words from National Prayer Breakfast 02/06/14:

Today, we profess the principles we know to be true. We believe that each of us is “wonderfully made” in the image of God. We, therefore, believe in the inherent dignity of every human being -- dignity that no earthly power can take away. And central to that dignity is freedom of religion -- the right of every person to practice their faith how they choose, to change their faith if they choose, or to practice no faith at all, and to do this free from persecution and fear.

He nearly gets it.  His principles are:  "made in God's image", "inherent dignity"...

But, he sides with "negative immunity" against Truth in the name of freedom--associating freedom with right, instead of truth.  Freedom is central to dignity, but Truth is moreso.  Truth sets free, not vice versa

Katie van Schaijik

#7, Feb 7, 2014 1:41am

"It's for freedom that Christ has set us free."

and, "You shall know the Truth and the Truth shall set you free."

These two verses seem to confirm Jules' point, vs. that truth is a means to freedom, or (in a way), truth is the "means" and freedom the "end".

Obama is using words he doesn't believe and doesn't practice.  He is a liar.

Katie van Schaijik

#8, Feb 7, 2014 2:02am

Here's another thought: Jesus is "the Truth". Truth, to say it another way, is a Person. And persons are by nature and essence free.

Theology and dogmas are not persons.

When we evangelize, we introduce persons to the Person of Jesus, and invite them to a communion of love with Him.

There is and can be no coercion. 

Sam Roeble

#9, Feb 7, 2014 8:07am

ah, good verse from Galatians!  Thanks.  In that sense, I suppose it is a both/and situation with truth and freedom= "Truth sets free" "For freedom Christ sets free"

Is the essence of a person 'freedom' Katie?  I have thought about that in terms of Edith Stein's writing and I don't think she'd agree.  As I understand it, she would argue that a person's essence is a "specific way of existence"-- as man or woman. 

So, a person's essence is "a singular way of existence"

Katie van Schaijik

#10, Feb 7, 2014 8:14am

To say that freedom is of the essence of personal existence is not to suggest that its the only thing belonging to its essence.

Similarly, while Edith Stein statement is definitely true, it's not adequate in terms of capturing what it means to be a person.

She notes something true; she doesn't define.

Wojtyla focuses in a particular way on freedom and self-determination when he zeroes in on the essence of personhood.  Crosby draws special attention to "self-possession." For Aristotle is was rationality.

If we want a full and adequate understanding, we need to see and account for all these things.

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