Thank you, Jules! (I think...)  Teresa, I agree completely!

Feb. 22 at 4:07pm | See in context

Deceit is a "deliberate assault on human beings." It's the most subtle and most effective way to keep people in bondage, to keep them  bamboozled and ignorant such that they cannot be free.

Feb. 22 at 10:12am | See in context

Only Jules has the ability to make me laugh out loud when I am reading comments on my phone in an environment where it is absolutely essential I remain silent!

Feb. 22 at 8:47am | See in context

 We'll do our best to make it a real penance!

Feb. 22 at 7:12am | See in context

Teresa: Thank you for your kind words - and your very perceptive thoughts re: resistance to the reality of one's "creatureliness" to a certain extent, one's imperfection;a most necessary but often absent balance between acceptance and acquisence.

Gregory:  Thank you for enlarging on the context of your post!  Pride, in its many guises, bewitches us and robs us of the strength that is at its best in weakness.

Katie: I couldn't agree more that the "forgiveness issues" approach is pernicious; it smacks of a sort of blanket amnesty wherein *everything* is forgiven and *nothing* is forgiven simultaneously.  I got a bellyful of 'non-judgmental' Carl Rogers technique in my 1970s undergrad psych degree...Such 'acceptance', it still seems to me, violates the subjectivity and uniqueness of he person while it denies him/her the dignity of taking responsibility for his/her own actions - to the fullest extent possible.

(I'll be *here* during Lent, while 'abstaining' from several other favorite spots on the 'Net...Thanks for the refreshment and spiritual/mental exercise to all!) 

Feb. 22 at 12:08am | See in context

In that case, you may feel the need to 'forgive' yourself for doing something painful that is, nonetheless, needful.

My second point certainly exposes me to potential ridicule, but I offer it for what it is worth.  When I was younger, I thought I had commited 'a big sin' (looking back now, I can hardly see the harm in it; but I was more dramatic then).  I couldn't get over it - how many times I confessed that sin I cannot now remember - but my point is, I was not sorry for it because of God's 'just punishments', or even 'because they offend Thee my God, Who art all Good and derving of all my love'; I was sorry for it because I saw myself as so angelically good that this one spot tortured me - I was like the mad scientist in Hawthorne's The Birthmark, who kills his otherwise beautiful wife in an attempt to remove one cosmetic imperfection.  I certainly was not (am not) perfect.  And this sin was what it was.  But I needed to 'forgive myself,' if you will allow the phrase, precisely because I was not perfect - no one is.  Hard lesson learned. 

Feb. 21 at 3:22pm | See in context

If I may still comment on this thread, first, let me say to Hermitess21C how sorry I am for your pain, physical and emotional, and for your doctor not being able to affect positive change for you.  That truly is a loss which, it seems to me, you have very courageously and gracefully survived.

As to the point of forgiving oneself and if that is even possible, I would like to add two spins on this theme I have not seen here (and, like Gregory, I am liking the give and take on this one).

One potentially useful form of 'forgiving oneself' is not feeling guilty when you have to do something necessary but unpleasant.  For example, say a family member has an addiction or other problem that needs to be addressed, even forcibly, in order for that person to get help.  In pointing out the wrong (alcoholism, drug addiction, abuse, etc) you may receive (very) negative comments or feedback from the dependent person - he or she may attack you verbally, demanding you take back your words, even demanding you apologize for bringing this situation to light. But here it would be inappropriate to apologize, or back down.

Feb. 21 at 3:09pm | See in context

A budding homonoia methinks, Dr. Healy. And the reason for the Personalist Project, no? Like-mindedness forged (gently, as it were) through the hard process of criticism and real disagreement. Well. I'm for that. God Bless~

Feb. 20 at 10:45pm | See in context

To Hermitess21C, Katie, and Gregory:

All very interesting perspectives, each with some validity.  We seem to be learning from one another, compared to our starting points!

Feb. 20 at 4:25pm | See in context

Here's another way of expressing my problem.  

It seems to me that "forgiveness teachings" have been become excessively psychologized.  Pasters and teachers are tending to address "forgivenesss issues" exclusively as a condition in the spiritual patient, without regard for objective reality.

Whether the wrong in question was real or imagined, big or small, intentionally caused or accidental, is seen as irrelevant.  All that matters is that you feel like you were wronged.  That's enough to establish that you need to forgive.

This seeems to me a disastrous approach to the spiritual truth of forgiveness, even if it can have some genuine psychological benefits.  But I need to develop my thoughts in a longer post.

Feb. 20 at 12:09pm | See in context