All comments by: frangelo

Lauretta,

I did not say, nor did I refer to any sources that say that the baptismal water is “impregnated.”  The water is made fruitful for regeneration, that is, rebirth by way of the death and resurrection of Christ, symbolized by a washing in the life-giving waters of His grace.  This is done after the manner of Our Lord’s conception and resurrection, that is, virginally.

Please read the liturgical prayers and patristic description of the womb imagery of the font in my essay.  The references are virginal not coital.  Furthermore, the conception of Our Lord is not an impregnation precisely because there is no insemination.  I make fairly clear why the Church uses the language it does, and avoids that which it does not.  And again, no one has found any explicit patristic basis for the candle/font union being seen as coital.

Katie,

I believe I did show that the phallic symbolism of the Paschal Candle is incompatible with Catholic tradition:  The primary symbolism has nothing to do with coital imagery and such imagery is incompatible with the virginal connotations of the primary symbolism. Please review and consider what I had to say about the Annunciation, Baptism of Our Lord, the Resurrection and our baptism.  Also consider the use of analogy and that signs point up and the heavenly realities, while they illumine the signs, are not signs themselves.

But of course, the readers will have to be the ones to judge whether my arguments are convincing or not.  They were not convincing to you.  I respect your dissent on the matter.

However, what I meant by being “out of step with the tradition” is made precisely clear by my critique.  West’s interpretation has absolutely no basis in the tradition.  If the contrary is so, I would like to see some evidence.

Not only did I show that the phallic interpretation of the Paschal Candle is incompatible with the tradition, it is just not there, unless you want to make it up.  The fact is that over the years, the fathers of the Church have been invoked by West, et al. as the source for this belief.  This is simple not true.

I ordinarily would not use the word “copulation,” in a context such as this, but since the “conjugal act” imagery is simply not in the Easter rite, the physical simulation seems to me to be vacated of any significance re conjugal act.  But my use of the word was still a faux pas, since the symbolism has nothing to do with the conjugal act,  so neither would it have anything to do with copulation.

Again, I am sure my reaction is normal because the interpretation of the liturgical imagery has no basis in tradition, contrary to what is claimed.  Until now, no one has offered any evidence contrary to that which I have presented.

Jules,

Your observations are worth consideration.  I could have less to devalue context.  My point is that context and subjectivity is not everything. 

My primary point in mentioning Maria Lactans and breastfeeding, was to question the penchant of some to point the prudery finger every time someone suggests that a little more covering would be nice.  I certainly did not deny the existence of prudery in America.  Specifically, in regard to American men and breastfeeding, the relative unfamiliarity of a breast being exposed in that context, and the great familiarity of that flesh being exposed in others, is a factor that has little or nothing to do with hatred of the body or a devalued view of sex.