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Chana

Joined: Jan. 11, 2012

Bio:

I am a Torah observant Jew, a retired Lewis and Clark Senior lecturer, and a speaker for U-Choose Education Forum.  My doctorate is in the history of the philosophy of science, and my recent publications have been in political theory—ancient and modern I am currently writing on the religious foundations of 17th century political thought.


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Re: Interfaith statement on marriage issued

Jan. 13 at 1:45pm | see this comment in context

TorahJew,

We are agreed that government should get out of the marriage business. It should also get out of the divorce business.  Breaking a civil union is a civil matter. For many people today divorce is simply a civil matter in any case.   

Marriage should remain a religious institution.  Some churches and synagogues will marry gays, others won't.  But, as you, I, and Katiev know when we suggest this, we are still accused of bigotry, aren't we. 

Re: Interfaith statement on marriage issued

Jan. 13 at 12:51pm | see this comment in context

Much as I am reluctant to qualify TorahJew, I do not see this as an either/or situation.  We should use religious texts but there are several distinct branches of ethical theory.  Maimomides like Acquinas used them all in defense of Jewish and Christian morality. We can and should use them all in defense of marriage.  We can make a utilitarian argument for marriage.  We can also make a natural law and virtue ethics and Kantian argument for marriage.  I think we can make a very strong empirical biological Darwinian argument for marriage.  We should make them all.  We need to stand tall for what we believe.

What stops us is that no matter how accomodating we are in tolerating homosexualily and homosexual marriage.  We are ALWAYS accused of bigotry.  For the liberals toleration is not important.  They seem to think everyone is entitled to full scale approval and emulation.  How do we fight that?

Re: A thought about sanctimony

Jan. 11 at 8:41pm | see this comment in context

Katie van Schaijik, Jan. 11 at 8:23pm

 The Pope has noted that we live in a "dictatorship of relativism".  One of its effects is that those who believe in the objectivity of moral values are treated as a menace.

 

Yes we are demonized  It amounts to tyranny by the relativists.  Have you noticed, however, that they seem to tolerate moral assertions among their favored "non-western" peoples?  Their condemnations are a very selectively targetted tool. 

When faced with such tyranny, however, we have little to lose by asserting our beliefs in moral values.  They will demonize us one way or another.  I think that is one lesson I learned from Ronald Reagan.  

Re: A thought about sanctimony

Jan. 11 at 8:14pm | see this comment in context

We disable ourselves when we go on the defensive in defense of our values.  We have nothing to be defensive about.  We are told that we are going against the zeitgeist, but what of it?  Besides, that zeitgeist reflects at best only the values of what Marx would call the intelligentsia.

The intelligentsia, whether atheists or not, seem to believe that they themselves are not asserting transcendental values.  They are.  They are claiming to assert the morality of individual rights and individual dignity created by the Bible and politicized by Dissenting Christians in the 17th century.  They are taking our values, denying the legitimacy of those values, and yet demanding that we approve of the way they have interpreted those same notions of individual rights.  In doing so, they don’t seem to understand that they are eating their own seed corn. 

 

 

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