Amazon.com Widgets

Bill Drennen

Joined: Nov. 15, 2011

No bio


Most recent posts by Bill Drennen:     (See all of them)


No posts yet


Latest comments by Bill Drennen:     (See all of them)


Re: A call for radical, embodied love

Oct. 14 at 5:12pm | see this comment in context

More food for thought. Here is an article from National Review by George Weigel:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/390228/great-catholic-cave-wasnt-george-weigel

Critical of some rogue bishops he beleives influenced the interm document. I ignored all the defense against the press who always get it wrong but later in the article he goes into the inside scoup what he heard happened ect.

Re: A call for radical, embodied love

Oct. 13 at 3:49pm | see this comment in context

great insights! And I like the way my ideas can be challanged without compromising truth.

Also however, there is the issue of how the Synod's words will be understood. The paragraph I quoted will be read as an invitation to have gays holding hands in the pews!

Re: A call for radical, embodied love

Oct. 13 at 3:30pm | see this comment in context

Another way I tend to judge issues like this is to imagine how it will be in the next life when all disorders are put right. Will addiction exist? Will people be blind or crippled? Will they be gay? Of course my answer was always no, of course not….yet, now I’m rethinking this. Is it not true that many of us have natural attractions towards particular things that are higher levels of appreciation then others have? I am attracted to the beauty of the mountains I think at a level much higher then many people. For me I experience a calling that cannot be left un-responded to. I also have, I think a heightened appreciation for feminine beauty. These appreciations could become disordered but are not intrinsically so. In fact they are intrinsically VERY ORDERED. When responded to appropriately they become my path to God.

Could it not be possible that a man can have a heightened appreciation for masculine beauty, even to the point of experiencing it as a calling the way all beauty calls us? Can it be possible that he may appropriately respond to this calling? Will there then be “gays” in heaven, or at least in the way I describe it here?

Re: A call for radical, embodied love

Oct. 13 at 3:15pm | see this comment in context

I am wondering this because my understanding of gay attraction has been to me similar to alcoholism or addiction, a disorder which certainly is not “valued” in any sense except in that way that all sin may be valued in the ultimate sense, in retrospect as in the Easter prayer, “oh necessary sin of Adam that won for us so beautiful a savior”. Or perhaps it may be valued in a general sense like St. Paul when we see our weakness that keeps us dependent on grace.

Yet this is not what the Synod is saying questioning how the community can “value” a disordered orientation. Or, perhaps is the addiction model not appropriate for gay attraction? Is it perhaps more like a special needs person? Special needs or handicapped people may have obvious disorders in the natural realm and yet be a great blessing to the community.

Is this then closer to the mark for gay attraction or should I be upset as maybe Von Hildebrand would also be with the choice of the word, “value”? Would he insist that we can not truly VALUE a gay orientation?

 

Bill

Re: A call for radical, embodied love

Oct. 13 at 3:14pm | see this comment in context

Katie, I love your observation regarding the church as a spouse. It goes the other way too as I am letting this pope impress upon me which stretches me at times.

The Synod is quoted in the press today as stating:

“Homosexuals have gifts and qualities to offer to the Christian community. Are we capable of welcoming these people, guaranteeing to them a fraternal space in our communities? Often they wish to encounter a church that offers them a welcoming home. Are our communities capable of providing that, accepting and valuing their sexual orientation, without compromising Catholic doctrine on the family and matrimony?”

Assuming this is accurate; I wonder how Von Hildebrand would feel about the choice of words. I have no issue with this statement with the exception of the word, "value".

How does the church "value" an orientation towards acts that are intrinsically disordered? Even if we say that only the acts themselves are intrinsically disordered, is it not apparent that the orientation itself, if not intrinsically disordered at least certainly falls far short of the order God intended?

 (over word limit so 2'nd coment will continue)

Bill

Stay informed

Latest comments

  • Re: Personalism and the Judeo-Christian tradition
  • By: Katie van Schaijik
  • Re: Too Much, Too Little, Too Late
  • By: Peter
  • Re: Too Much, Too Little, Too Late
  • By: Peter
  • Re: Too Much, Too Little, Too Late
  • By: Peter
  • Re: Too Much, Too Little, Too Late
  • By: Peter
  • Re: Personalism and the Judeo-Christian tradition
  • By: Peter
  • Re: Personalism and the Judeo-Christian tradition
  • By: Peter
  • Re: Personalism and the Judeo-Christian tradition
  • By: Peter
  • Re: Personalism and the Judeo-Christian tradition
  • By: Peter
  • Re: Personalism and the Judeo-Christian tradition
  • By: Katie van Schaijik

Latest active posts

Reading circles

Lectures