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Freda

Joined: Aug. 15, 2012

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Re: What would Newman say about the Synod?

Nov. 26 at 7:14pm | see this comment in context

Part 2, for Katie

I think you could lead that reconciliation, Katie.  Look for common ground, common doctrinal views, and convince the others to reconcile.   You have the perfect platform in NCR, and you have the credentials: mother, a teacher,  writer,  philosopher,  loyal daughter of the Church,  devotee of DvH.  Is it worth the effort?  Absolutely.  For though you know based on history that the Church will eventually survive all this, knowing history does not provide a good reason to cooperate with those who want to simply repeat it -- nor does God’s promise to be with us excuse us from trying to live his Word, especially when our own children are involved.  Many people are being hurt by this perceived rupture: especially those who have faithfully lived up to the Church’s teaching on morality. and suffered loneliness and ostracism for their loyalty; and the children.  Imagine, Katie, the harm that is being done at this very moment to the many children and teenagers who are not receiving any instruction from the Church on morality and marriage.  I think you are capable of helping -- and you should.  End of begging.  Freda

 

Re: What would Newman say about the Synod?

Nov. 26 at 7:11pm | see this comment in context

Part 1

Dear Katie,  Finally, I have read the comments about Pope Francis that follow your article in NCR on line.    I agree with you, the comments are brutal; and bound to hurt the feelings of those who have a special affection for Pope Francis.  But the majority of those who commented negatively identified themselves as “traditionalists.”  They express anger at certain actions and positions taken by Pope Francis -- but not at the structure of the Church hierarchy -- nor at the institution of the papacy. 

So, I think I see a reason to celebrate -- a possibility that those who are hurt by the criticism of Pope Francis, but also count themselves as loyal to the Church and the papacy, can find grounds on which to reconcile with the others.  

 

Re: What would Newman say about the Synod?

Nov. 22 at 5:54pm | see this comment in context

Part 2 of comment:

As a convert, I am deeply disappointed in what is going on.  I had depended on Church teaching authority for an understanding of doctrine -- and I also depended upon the magisterium when teaching others.  When in doubt, I have turned to the writings of the Saints, Newman and DVH, etc.  

Right now, I think I speak for most reacent converts (including all those hapless Anglican communities) when I say that I wonder about my own "faith" in the "Church"-at least as represented by its current teaching authority --these bishops and Cardinals -- and yes, all in authority who have deliberately created this confusion.!  I feel like a child of divorcing parents.  The bishops are ignoring the terrible harm they are doing to the faith and understanding of us little ones -- all of us and our students, all who have hoped in the Church .  I do think it is time to calm down and make up -- stop accusing one another and start focusing on the sheep.

Re: What would Newman say about the Synod?

Nov. 22 at 5:42pm | see this comment in context

Katie,  (Part 1 of comment).  Thank you for your responses -- and for your patient tone.  In reference to conservative cricisms, you say,

"The problem with this kind of attitude and talk has nothing to do with commitment to dogma.  It has rather to do with a profound lack of faith in the Church and the way truth (in the sense of its practical application in the here and now) is worked out through dialog and debate. "The collision of mind with mind," as Newman put it.

I have not yet seen the comments,o (but I did read your article in paper copy and I was quite impressed telling all my friends -- "why, I know her!")

But even when I read the comments, I doubt that I will be in a position to know what is a genuine attempt to work out the truth and what is just a "lack of faith in the Church"  

Re: What would Newman say about the Synod?

Nov. 20 at 8:48pm | see this comment in context

Part 2 of very long comment:

s it Cardinal Burke that you are pointing to in your comments?  Isn't it "licit" for a Cardinal -- indeed even for a layperson -- to debate a doctrinal position at odds with others in the magisterium, and even the Pope?   I have read and reread the Catechism chapters on teaching authority and papal infallibility and I do not see how Cardinals' academic debates in the context of a conclave, can be considered somehow "unfaithful" to the Pope or the Church. 

My own elementary understanding of the Church's catechism concerning the Sixth Commandment (I taught it for 10 years at the fourth grade level) tends to agree with Cardinal Burke's view, but I am aware that there are many "liberal" Catholics who think such views are passe and simplistic.  One liberal Catholic is the pastor of a church in Massachusetts where I was disinvited from teaching eighth graders as a guest lecturer on the Ten Commandments this year because I was planning to teach the Sixth Commandment in accordance with the written catechism for Children that age (i.e., chastity, and wait until marriage, and only traditional marriage).  The children were preparing for confession in advance of eventual confirmation.   Yet, I was instructed to either avoid all mention of the Sixth Commandment or to warn parents in advance that the Sixth Commandment would be taught and allow the parents to opt out their children, because such "traditional" views are now considered "controversial;" gay marriage is here to stay;--  and, I was told, the Pope's view is that at the parish level, we must not be "obsessed" with such issues.  With this encounter in mind, I would have immediately understood, Jules, if you had expressed irritation with self-described "liberal" supporters of the Pope.  My own opinion is that this one Pastor and others dealing with children who are daily inculcated with "diversity" training in public schools, have, by their withdrawal of Church teaching on the subject, done great harm to scores of young people who have been thus misinstructed (my opinion) on the catechism.

 Since the only "conservative" view on the issue among theologians that I know of is Cardinal Burke's view --your irritation at "conservatives" is a great surprise to me.  Surely Cardinal Burke is defending the Church's teaching as it has existed for more than 2,000 years.  Is that really so bad -- even if it seems to irritate the Pope -- or "liberal supporters" of the Pope?   

So, I have the impression that you may be referring to people and comments that I have not heard -- or perhaps have not paid much attention to because their comments were over my head.  And here you seem to be trying not to name names.  Still, if you can, please explain -- at least on a level that this poor fourth grade volunteer catechist can understand.  Kindest regards - I know that I can be a pain.  Freda

Freda

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