Re: To speak or not to speak: a dilemma in the debate surrounding SSM

By: Scott Johnston

Just came across this. A relevant presentation from a year ago. Dr. Richard Fitzgibbons, in a presentation to U.S. bishops:

Same Sex Attractions in Youth and Their Right to Informed Consent.

Also relevant, is this article at Catholic World Report:

Gay Marriage--Nothing New Under the Sun

May. 22 at 3:43pm | See in context

Re: To speak or not to speak: a dilemma in the debate surrounding SSM

By: Scott Johnston

I'll make this my last remark for now!

So, children, in a Catholic view of life, actually have a right in accord with their inherent human dignity to be created only in the context of a certain kind of act--the natural sexual union of a man and woman married to each other, thus committed to give to each other for life in the sacred bond of marriage. Anything less is beneath the dignity of every child.

The first time I read this in the catechism (before I became Catholic), I was deeply struck by how beautiful this is! And I was deeply struck with a sense that this has to be the truth about human life.

I don't hear any talk about this aspect of Catholic teaching in the context of same sex marriage debates. I think it is very important to speak, along with other things, of the right of every child to be the fruit of the loving conjugal union of a man and woman joined for life in marriage, that anything less is an insult to the dignity of the human person. (So, any embryogenesis done in a test tube or by a surrogate, etc., is immoral).

May. 22 at 2:00pm | See in context

Re: To speak or not to speak: a dilemma in the debate surrounding SSM

By: Scott Johnston

See also, the "Sex Ed Library," by SIECUS. This is intended specifically for educators (see the prepared lesson plans). Notice how much it sounds like Planned Parenthood. This is where educators are told to go for training for their own presentations on the topic of sexuality. This is the sort of things kids have been taught in many American schools for four decades.

It seems to me that another very important key to talking about this issue is contained in the implications of Catechism nos. 2373-79. Especially see 2376 and 2377, which speak about a "child's right to be born of a father and mother known to him and bound to each other by marriage."

Because of the inherent dignity of the human person, the Catechism teaches that each act that brings about new human life should be an act, "by which two persons give themselves to one another." And, "Under the moral aspect procreation is deprived of its proper perfection when it is not willed as the fruit of the conjugal act, that is to say, of the specific act of the spouses' union." (CCC 2377)

I think explaining this beautiful teaching more deeply is essential in this debate.

May. 22 at 1:48pm | See in context

Re: To speak or not to speak: a dilemma in the debate surrounding SSM

By: Kevin Schemenauer

Hello Katie,

You raise two important issues for me: 1) when we talk frequently about something negative are we promoting that negative thing; and 2) what should the Catholic voice be in our current U.S. context.

On the first issue, I have found that you get more out of what you put more into. I think we should talk more about why marriage between a man and a woman committed for life and open to life is good than why same sex unions are bad. That being said, urgency demands that we speak to the danger of particularly harmful actions.

On the second issue, I agree with Scott. Morally, we must speak to the disordered nature of homosexual acts, but unless you seek to criminalize same sex acts, the central issue politically seems to be the state's interest in the having and raising of children. While marriage is about companionship and commitment, the state cannot measure companionship and the reason the state has enforced commitment (unfortunately, largely absent now) in marriage and not in other friendships, I think, is for the sake of children.

What should state policy be concerning adoption placement and surrogacy?

May. 22 at 1:24pm | See in context

Re: To speak or not to speak: a dilemma in the debate surrounding SSM

By: Scott Johnston

To see an example of this warped view of sex and how it is promoted, see the Planned Parenthood web site. Note the lower right of their home page for the sections, "Info for Teens," "Tools for Parents," and, "Tools for Educators." It's worthwhile looking through these pages because it shows what we're dealing with. The Planned Parenhood attitude is essentially the same as those promoted in public education through health and science classes.

For more about this, look up info on the history and role of SIECUS (Sexuality Information and Education Council of the United States). This organization is largely the source of the sex ed content in American schools since the early 70's. The history section of their web site states, "SIECUS has become a recognized leader in the field of sexuality and sexuality education, publishing numerous books, journals, and resources for professionals, parents, and the public." Their first published book was intended for teacher training. SIECUS was founded in 1964. The founder was the former medical director of Planned Parenthood. The amoral, animal-like approach to sexuality of PP is shared by SIECUS. And from SIECUS came the sex ed now entrenched in our schools for 40 years.

May. 22 at 1:16pm | See in context

Re: To speak or not to speak: a dilemma in the debate surrounding SSM

By: Scott Johnston

Perhaps the higher degree of phsychological problems among SSA persons has to do with the inherent sterility of homosexual acts. (I heard a man with SSA who had left the lifestyle and become a practicing Christian say this). No matter how much you "enhance" same-sex sexual acts, there will never be a new person in the world by the morning. With natural hetero sex, there could be a new person by the next day--a tremendously powerful and mysterious possibility. This, he said, made same sex acts inherently lifeless and meaningless in a way that at a certain point shocked him into realizing the vast difference, even though he still had a desire for such things. If my memory serves, I think this was David Morrison, author of Beyond Gay (Our Sunday Visitor, 1999).

Deviant sexual behavior has been passed off as normal among culturally elite circles (including educators of educators) at least since Kinsey's perverted "research" and the subsequent promotion of his ideas in mainstream education (and entertainment and jornalism and psychology) circles. And actually, before that, with Margaret Sanger and her "Birth Control Review" and other outlets.

May. 22 at 12:55pm | See in context

Re: To speak or not to speak: a dilemma in the debate surrounding SSM

By: Katie van Schaijik

Here's more from the same article:

Well-designed research studies, published in leading peer-reviewed journals, 15 have shown a number of psychiatric disorders to be far more prevalent in teenagers and adults with SSA: major depression, anxiety disorders, substance abuse, suicidal ideation, suicide attempts and sexual abuse victimization.

The SSM lobby claims that this is because people with SSA are rejected and shamed by society. But,

Many of these studies were done in countries where homosexuality is widely accepted, such as in New Zealand and the Netherlands.

I think it's important to show (what I'm sure is true) that it is the nature of the acts that causes and/or greatly exacerbates human misery and anguish.

As Kant said, persons are ends-in-themselves, never to be used as a mere means. Those acts, in their nature and structure, reduce persons to "mere means," regardless of subjective intention.

May. 22 at 10:48am | See in context

Re: To speak or not to speak: a dilemma in the debate surrounding SSM

By: Katie van Schaijik

A friend who counsels teens with addictions has alerted me to an article in Homiletic and Pastoral Review that deepens my sense that the left is defrauding the youth with dangerous lies. [emphasis added]

Youth have the right to be provided with the accurate medical and psychological knowledge about homosexuality by pediatricians, mental health professionals, school counselors, educators and parents. Presently, well-organized attempts are under way to attempt to block youth from being given both the appropriate scientific knowledge, and informed consent about: same-sex attractions, gender identity disorder, transsexual issues, the psychological needs of a child for father and mother, and marriage.

One example of this activity is the American Psychological Association publication, Just the Facts 1, that was sent to all the school superintendents in this country two years ago. It was sponsored by a coalition of 13 national organizations, including the American School Counselors Association, and the American Academy of Pediatrics. Just the Facts advised schools that all forms of sexual attraction are normal, warned against psychotherapy for homosexual attractions, encouraged on-campus gay clubs, and cautioned schools about the scientific literature—such as studies by the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH)—that presents heterosexuality as normative.

May. 22 at 10:30am | See in context

Re: To speak or not to speak: a dilemma in the debate surrounding SSM

By: Katie van Schaijik

Scott Johnston, May. 21 at 10:07pm

Katie, when it comes to disucussing this issue politically and especially what our laws should be, it seems to me (and I've heard Michael Medved speak of it this way) that the main question is, what sort of relationship should the state give special sanction?

Yes, I agree. But, having participated in many such discussions, I can only say that they often reach an impasse, where I feel pressed to spell out more explicitly why there is no comparison between a conjugal union and a SS liaison. I find myself up against the assertion that since marriage is about companionship and commitment, there's no reason why SS couples can't participate it in. IVF and adoption allow them to be parents, many of them are good parents, etc.

What I think needs showing is that it is a grave injustice, even a kind of insanity, to declare in law that these two kinds of relationships are moral and social equivalents. The conjugal union is something beautiful and good, integrated and integrating, healthy and life-giving.

Homosexual acts are not.

May. 22 at 10:08am | See in context

Re: To speak or not to speak: a dilemma in the debate surrounding SSM

By: Katie van Schaijik

Rhett Segall, May. 21 at 6:40pm

Another issue in the same genre as "such things shouldn't even be mentioned among you" is oral sex among the young. Again, is passive resistance the best educative approach?

I don't use the term "passive", but "non-violent". In the analogy, proponents of non-violent resistance are not at all passive. They are heroically staunch, absorbing blows with courage and self-sacrifice, in order to expose the evil for what it is, and induce shame in the evil-doers and their enablers.

My concern is that many "normal people" (by which I mean people whose sexual desires are not perverse) do not conceive what homosexual acts entail, so they tend to be naive, which leaves a clear field for the shameless to occupy.

On the other hand, to speak or write about the truth of those acts is to participate in the debauching. At least, that's what I fear.

May. 22 at 10:01am | See in context